quick question on Feanorians

[martal0712.livejournal.com]

Hey guys,

I'm considering writing a piece about Feanor and Nerdanel. Can someone give me a run-down of the names their seven sons were given at birth, and the meanings of those names? Also, did they have any other children (like daughters)?

Thanks,
Marta

Comments

[mitani5.livejournal.com]

(*￣ω￣)ﾉ

Sorry you have to see this again. I thought I might clear something up...

This is from memory, so I'm might not be 100% correctI am not 100% correct.
These are their mother-names.
1.Maitimo - "beautiful" (like, in body)
2.Macalaure - "forging gold"
3.Tyelkormo - UHHHHH something angry ｢(ﾟﾍﾟ) is it "hasty riser" or is that Carnister...anyway
4.Carnister - "red face"
5.Atarinke - "little father"
6. 7.Ambarussa - this name was for both twins but then Feanor told Nerdanel "LOL that's confusing" so she was like, "Ok, the youngest is Ambarto (fate)"
But I don't think anyone ever used that name because it was weird/freaky/prophetic

Father-names. I think these were the ones given at birth...?
1.Nelyafinwe - Third Finwe
2.Urr, I forgot. I think it's "Kanafinwe"? and I think it means "commanding Finwe"? Not sure anymore..
3.FORGOTTEN
4.something that means "dark finwe"
5.Curufinwe "skilled Finwe" named after Feanor 8D
6.Pityafinwe - little Finwe
7.Telyafinwe - last Finwe

Sindarin names @___@ without translations because 1) I forgot 2) they were kind of confusing
1.Maedhros
2.Maglor
3.Celegorm
4.Caranthir
5.Curufin
6.Amrod
7.Amras


Sons = 7 / Daughters = FAIL

Someone is probably going to fix ALL of my mistakes.
Sorry I made mistakes and have a bunch of blanks, the copies of all my books are...gone.

But maybe that helps? :D?

[alassante.livejournal.com]

I don't have any books near me either and my brain is fried from Mefa reviews but I can just tell you that 3. is definately hasty riser. :) It a long standing joke with me and rhapsody11 who should be along any time now to set us straight about the rest (she's the research guru lol). And I think Celegorm's father's name was something similar to Turkey LMFAO Sorry its late and I'm brain dead. :P

[aramel-calawen.livejournal.com]

I'm putting these down from memory, but I'm pretty sure they're correct.

Father-names:
1. Nelyafinwë, lit. "Third-Finwë"
2. Canafinwë, lit. "Commanding Finwe"
3. Turkafinwë, lit. "Strong Finwë"
4. Morifinwë, lit. "Dark Finwë"
5. Curufinwë, lit. "Skilled Finwë", same as Feanor's own name
6. Pityafinwë, lit. "Small Finwë"
7. Telufinwë, lit. "Last Finwë"

Mother-names:
1. Maitimo, "well-shaped one"
2. Makalaurë, "forging gold". Note: this is not gold the metal, but gold the colour. No, I don't know what it means either.
3. Tyelkormo, "hasty riser"
4. Carnistir, "ruddy face" or something like that. Sorry.
5. Atarinkë, "little father"
6&7 Ambarussa, the meaning of which I'm not sure. If you're going with the version where one of them died at Losgar, then one's Ambarto and one's Umbarto, like Mitani said. Otherwise, just Ambarussa.

The seven also had nicknames (canon nicknames! *swoon*). You might want to use these because it's most likely what they'd have called each other in Aman. Especially for Curufin, because both of his other names are inconvenient.

1. Nelyo
2. Káno
3. Turko
4. Moryo
5. Kurvo
6. Pityo
7.Telvo

You might also want to change the Ks to Cs for stylistic reasons, but that's up to you. AFAIK, they didn't have other kids.

[ford-of-bruinen.livejournal.com]

well Curufin did :) he had a son... no girls in this bloodline at all though

[aramel-calawen.livejournal.com]

Er... "they" as in Feanor and Nerdanel. Although I suppose this should teach me not to use unreferenced pronouns. :P

[ford-of-bruinen.livejournal.com]

*LOL* It should also teach me not to reply to comments before I actually have woken up in the morning :D

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

Curufin's nick name sounds the same as one Polish dirty word, poor boy. So I definitely prefer calling him with the full name Curufinwë.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Hah! I never thought of that, but you are SO RIGHT.

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

Anytime you want to insult him without any negative repercussions you can just use his nick name ;>

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

What does it mean in Polish then? Poor Turko's nick doesn't sound so flattering in Dutch, so I rather call him Tyelko ^-^

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

In addition to all what has been said (Aramel has the correct info), the following sons were married (it is not known when, with whom and such)

Maglor, Caranthir, Curufin. Maedhros appeared to be wedded. From HOME XII

Maedros the eldest appears to have been unwedded, also the two youngest (twins, of whom one was by evil mischance burned with the ships); Celegorm also, since he plotted to take Luthien as his wife. But Curufin, dearest to his father and chief inheritor of his father's skills, was wedded, and had a son who came with him into exile, though his wife (unnamed) did not. Others who were wedded were Maelor (Maglor), Caranthir.

No other grandkids but Celebrimbor.

Also on the gifting of fathernames (always directly after birth) and mothernames (most often years later),

The Shibboleth of Fëanor (HOME XII) says this:

Note on Mother-names.

The Eldar in Valinor had as a rule two names, or essi. The first-given was the father-name, received at birth. It usually recalled the father's name, resembling it in sense or form; sometimes it was simply the father's name, to which some distinguishing prefix in the case of a son might be added later when the child was full-grown. The mother-name was given later, often some years later, by the mother; but sometimes it was given soon after birth.
For the mothers of the Eldar were gifted with deep insight into their children's characters and abilities, and many had also the gift of prophetic foresight.
In addition any of the Eldar might acquire an epesse('aftername'), not necessarily given by their own kin, a nickname - mostly given as a title of admiration or honour. Later some among the exiles gave themselves names, as disguises or in reference to their own deeds and personal history: such names were called kilmessi 'self-names' (literally names of personal choice).(16)

The 'true names' remained the first two, but in later song and history any of the four might become the name generally used and recognized.

Of Curufin it is known that he never used his mother name.

More on the Mothernames (from HOME XII)

Their 'mother-names' are recorded (though never used in narrative) as:

(1) Maitimo 'well-shaped one': he was of beautiful bodily form. But he, and the youngest, inherited the rare red-brown hair of Nerdanel's kin, Her father had the epesse of rusco 'fox'. So Maitimo had as an epesse given by his brothers and other kin Russandol 'copper-top'.(61)
(2) Makalaure Of uncertain meaning.Usually interpreted (and said to have been a 'prophetic' mother-name) as 'forging gold'. If so, probably a poetic reference to his skill in harping, the sound of which was 'golden' (laure was a word for golden light or colour, never used for the metal).
(3) Tyelkormo 'hasty-riser'. Quenya tyelka 'hasty'. Possibly in reference to his quick temper, and his habit of leaping up when suddenly angered.
(4) Atarinke 'little father' - referring to his physical likeness to Feanor, later found to be also seen in his mind.
(5) Carnistir 'red-face' - he was dark (brown) haired, but had the ruddy complexion of his mother.
6) Ambarto (62)
(7) Ambarussa

Maedhros is the only one with a canon epessë. And poor Celebrimbor gets ignored again LOL. He is the only grandson of Fëanor and his name means "silver fist" or "Hand of silver" in Sindarin (Telperinquar in Quenya).

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

"Maedhros appeared to be wedded. From HOME XII

Maedros the eldest appears to have been unwedded"

Yyyy? What does it mean? Misspell or he was divorced? O_o

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

He never married to Tolkien's mind. Sorry LOL, I had to cut back on characters in this comment but I didn't read it twice, so yeah I forgot to add un before that. Maybe he had a mistress or a fiancee or something like that, but this line is plot bunny brewing! Did he marry, but his father did not approve of it? Did he marry in secret? Did he refuse to get married, but had a mistress? Hmmm

[aramel-calawen.livejournal.com]

I have this theory that the other elves couldn't tell whether or not he was married. Usually Elves tell whether someone is married or not by looking at their eyes, and Nelyo's were (according to Silm) changed after his capture. Just an idea.

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

No, I disagree with this. Tolkien was always clear in saying wether someone had married or not. If Maedhros was married to him, Tolkien would have said so, especially in his notes.

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

But you know Tolkien had no idea of Almighty MarySues thus he didn't know how many times Maitimo has been married ;P

Of course there are Heroines guarding his virginity peace of mind, so now MarySues don't have that easy access to him. ;)))

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

Well you know, I was involved in a discussion today where an original fic writer (who looked down on fan fiction writers) told me that with every word or sentence I wrote of Tolkien FF I asked myself if it would be exactly what Tolkien intended... so my train of thoughts today is also based on that. As much as I like Maedhros, Tolkien did state that people could not hide the fact that they were married so easily from the other. And Maedhros was involved in a lot of negotiating (think of the years that was spend on the Union of Maedhros alone) and if he would avoid looking directly at them, he would never been able to gain their trust. Would you trust someone who would never look you honestly in your eyes?

But as you know, I don't mind reading those fics, but when it comes down to providing research I am not handing out fanon things.

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

Of course, facts are clear. I was just joking ;)

[aramel-calawen.livejournal.com]

Well, I agree that he wasn't married. But the theory was just to explain the "appeared" bit. Because in this case the historians couldn't tell.

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

Personally I am very muchly in the Maedhros/Annawendë camp ;)

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

OMG, I just red the text on your icon "The fanfic authors must die" O_o

That was scary!

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

Euh... but that is not what the icon says.. really.. you're ok? {{{hugs}}}

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

Oh, it was "misreading", don't worry! ;) I saw what it really says in the same moment.

{hugs}

[martal0712.livejournal.com]

You guys are such a wealth of information! I really appreciate all of this.

The story does not involve the sons per se, but is more about Nerdanel's changing feelings for her husband. It is loosley based on the Biblical story of Leah and Jacob. The important thing is the meaning of the mother-names.

And Rhapsody, thank you for the quote on when mother-names was given. I think I am going to have her give the names fairly early in their life. Not at birth but within a few years. At the beginning it comes from the fact that Miriel died shortly after Feanor's birth and so Nerdanel is unsure that she will be able to survive the drain that comes from childbearing. Later, it will be because she has always done so.

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

So maybe you'll explain why both parents were oh-so-imaginative and gave them such poetic names as Finwë 3, Finwë Small or Red Face... Some sons got nice names from mommy - Forging Gold - but the rest? Poor kids ;)

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

LOL!

[aramel-calawen.livejournal.com]

Seconded! (Atarinkë was the worst of the lot, in my opinion... Poor Curufinwë the second Atarinkë Kurvo boy just can't win, no matter which name you call him by.)

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

*adds another question to the list: what would you want to ask Tolkien if you could do so*

[alassante.livejournal.com]

OMG I love your icon. That's too funny.