Elves and Elvishness

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

One of my original stories contains two races of semi-immortal people, and I really don't want them to be too similar to Tolkien's elves, so I thought a bit about exactly what 'elvish behaviour' means.



It's a common criticism of fic: 'Your elves aren't elvish enough', and I'm sure most of us have been told that at least once, but what do we really mean by it? The common perception (fanon, perhaps?) seems to be that elves live life very slowly and indecisively, which may well be true for some, but certainly not for all, even in LoTR. I would suggest that it is their life experiences and personalities that make elves like Elrond, Gildor and Galadriel that way, rather than being something inherent to all elves. Celeborn is positively hasty in his decision-making process, as shown by his reaction to the news of the Moria Balrog.

There was an interesting discussion a few weeks ago on Dawn's LJ about the intervals between children in a elven family, and there the canon examples range from three children in a maximum of ten years, (Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing) which would not be unusual in an average family today, to almost six centuries between Turgon and Aredhel. Once again, elves range from one end of the spectrum to the other, and their spectrum is far broader than ours.

'Youth' is also a relative term for elves, and may encompass the entire first millennium of life. LaCE tells us that elves tended to marry when young, but Finarfin is almost five hundred years old when he marries Eärwen. Fëanor created his Tengwar in his "early youth", even though he was seven hundred and seventy-six at the time.

For hastiness in decision making, I offer the example of the Noldor of Tirion, who took almost no time at all to decide to pack up and move to a different continent. Whatever their reasons (revenge, recovery of Silmarils, wanting a land of their own, etc.) it was not a change that required long deliberation.

So the next time someone tells you your elves aren't acting elvishly because they do things too quickly, remember that you're in the company of JRRT himself!

Comments

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

I didn't say that Dawn's Elves weren't elvish enough, only that I personally see the average Elven family differently

No, you didn't, and I wouldn't dream of accusing you of it! I did not intend any criticism of either you or your opinion. I was just using that discussion as an example of two people having very different ideas which are both founded in canon.

If someone wanted to write Feanor's children all being born within a quarter of a century they could justify it with the example of Dior and Nimloth, or they could have them spread out over 40 000 years by combining the evidence in 'Myths Transformed' and 'The Annals of Aman'.

I am not sure why people would think of them as slow, ponderous types

The elves in the movies, perhaps?

they seem to think of murder as not just horrible, but rare and unexpected. And of course they are less prone to rape, too. So in a sense they seem morally superior to humans, or at least have different drives

I think that human reaction to crime depends to some extent on the size of settlement: the larger the city, the less shocked people are when there is a murder or a rape. In Exeter (population 80 000, not including students) it is a dreadful shock to everyone when a violent crime is commited, definitely not expected and extremely rare, whereas in London it's almost an everyday event.

For the most part (Feanor and sons at their worst exempted) Tolkien's elves seem to represent behavioural and social ideals that humans should try to live up to.

To my mind, Elves all share a love of lore, and art, and nature, to lesser or greater degree, and a special sensitivity to such things.

But so do humans, at least in my experience. The same goes for the hair and shiny jewellery things.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

But so do humans, at least in my experience. The same goes for the hair and shiny jewellery things.

Well, I was kind of joking about the hair and jewellery, although I am pretty sure that Tolkien explicitly stated that hair *was* particularly attractive to Elves. As for the other part, I congratulate you on your experience: I am not so lucky. I know many people who find reading and looking at art tedious, or even foolish, and many other people who think walking through a forest is inconvenient rather than pleasant. And I would go so far as to say that over half the people I know value money far higher than knowledge. (And maybe they're right--I just think the proportions would be different for Elves.)

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

I am pretty sure that Tolkien explicitly stated that hair *was* particularly attractive to Elves

I seem to remember reading that too.

I am not so lucky. I know many people who find reading and looking at art tedious, or even foolish, and many other people who think walking through a forest is inconvenient rather than pleasant

Actually I just remembered that I have met someone like that, but he was so uninteresting that I forgot about him completely until he walked past my office a few minutes ago - there may well be others who were equally unmemorable!

I really enjoyed all your stories on ff.net, and if they represent your interpretation of Tolkien's elves, then I guess I agree with your interpretation. I suppose what I was trying to say in my original post was that 'Your elves aren't behaving elvishly enough' isn't a particularly valid criticism in many cases, given the range of behaviour Tolkien wrote.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think many of my comedy Elves could do with an extra dose of Elvishness--but they're certainly not unElvish enough that I'd complain if they were written by someone else. I see from your other comment, though, that you've found the stories I *would* complain about...


And thanks for letting me know you enjoyed my stuff!