silwritersguild | Young!Feanor Drabble

Hang on, take two (more constructive I hope)

When I read the drabble I have no clue what age you are trying to portray here. You say you write a wee!Feanor, but his language and word use doesn't reflect that at all. If Feanor, given the language you chose for this drabble, would be wandering on the beach and discovering the art of glass, I wonder if he wouldn't be more infuriated by what happened with his parents. What I read here fits more an adolescent person and not a grumpy elfling with quite a temper (don't be mistaken, even babies can already show a fiery temper) who feels not treated right because he wants his real mom to appraise his work, comfort him ect ect.

Besides that, I really don't see a craftsman and fiery spirit like Feanor sulking. Maybe contemplating, gazing, muttering, pacing up and down ect ect would be more fitting. As far as I know (will dive into the books, but I recently studied that part of the Silm closely), he was mature when his father married Indis, so I have to admit that that put me off at instant.

As for the language it feels too choppy in the form of the sentences, I think if you make longer sentences the flow would be more natural. I have a hard time getting a feel what is really going through his mind, so I just can't seem to connect with your main character. So my advise would be to adjust the language to the age you had in mind and try to see what a young elfling really would be concerned about. I think if you try that, you would have a better feeling about it.

I think

martal0712 *was* aiming to write a teenager rather than an "elfling"--at least that's what she says in her entry! However, your comment has made me notice something: I am not sure that "sulked" is the right word to use, because I doubt Feanor would think of himself as doing that, and the drabble does seem to be in his head, at least later on.

Also I think the sentence length is a question of personal taste. I like them, especially in drabbles which have to be very economical with language.

When I see a topic stating wee! I do not see an adolescent person. Wee is little, toddler style. Or maybe I've been reading and writing hobbits too much.

I hardly use a staccatto style in my drabbles because even with writing you even can manage to write 100 words in normal length sentences. Trust me, you can. Often when I see short sentences like that I wonder if the writing can't be more efficient. She asked for specific feedback, and well I am giving that to her.

I suppose that she changed the entry after you posted your comment, then, because when I read it was titled Young!Feanor it said that he is still more or less the elven equivalent of a teenager.

Trust me, you can.

I trust you, of course, and I was not objecting to the feedback you gave, just stating that, while the sentence length bothers you, it does not bother me. I do not see sentences of eight to ten words as abnormally short. But maybe she's already used your feedback to lengthen them? Or, as I said, it could be a question of taste. Hemmingway's sentences were even shorter, in general, and some people love his writing.

I suppose that she changed the entry after you posted your comment, then, because when I read it was titled Young!Feanor it said that he is still more or less the elven equivalent of a teenager.

She changed more, so it is comparing apples to pears now. I don't have the old version saved, I didn't think of that (neither did I see a reason too though).

I trust you, of course, and I was not objecting to the feedback you gave, just stating that, while the sentence length bothers you, it does not bother me.

Oh I bet you read a different version (and others). What struck me as odd was that the beginning and ending had a normal pacing, but somewhere it suddenly changed but not with a clear purpose. If you change your pace, especially with short pieces, it alarms the reader that something is said which you should pay attention too. In this case where it appeared it wasn't. The version I read now is different and more balanced. So yeah.

Hemmingway's sentences were even shorter, in general, and some people love his writing.

I most of his works that I could get my hands on at the Library (that was more than 10 years ago, maybe 15) so yes I know that :) For Whom the Bell Tolls is my absolute fab, followed by The Sun Also Rises.

I think, if you are interested, that they most marvellous manner how a growing up child is written can be read in Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt. Look at the voice he is using there and watch how this slowly changes as the character ages. It's truly brilliant.

Okay, it all makes sense now! I guess I had originally assumed that if the author hadn't replied to your comment, she wouldn't have updated the story using your comments, either. So, well. It's good that she did change it though. I approve of people who ask for comments actually accepting and using them!

If you change your pace, especially with short pieces, it alarms the reader that something is said which you should pay attention too.

That's a good point.

For Whom The Bell Tolls is a classic. (And, incidentally, I've always thought that a deliberately Hemmingwayesque style would be a brilliant way to write Aragorn. Think of the manliness!) I've read Angela's Ashes, but I guess I should take another look at it as I remember it as told from more of an adult-looking-at-the-past perspective. But while we're on the subject of 1) children's voices and 2) gifted Irish authors, I like Roddy Doyle's Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha a lot, and At Swim Two Boys has some excellent young-POV moments, too.

Well, knowing Marta, I think she has :) *pokes Marta* I think in the loads of e-mails she hasn't gotten the time to comment.

I read Angela's ashes last year and I was swept away by it, I didn't see the adult pov at all *looks around for her copy*. I have 'Tis waiting for me to read, but I don't have much time alone to put my feet up and read. Also, did you know his brother wrote a book too? And this thread makes me want to read my favs again *sigh*

I love Roddy Doyle! I have all his works here, except for the latest and I am quite addicted to the Barrytown trilogy (especially of the Commitments where I have the book, cd, dvd LOL). I was wondering if James Joyce did the same too with his classic a portrait of an...., but it has been too long since I read that. I need more hours in a day.

Yes, I have read 'Tis and Malachy's A Monk Swimming. They both have more books, though, that I have not even seen. I just remember Angela's Ashes as having some musings on miserable Catholic childhoods and various moral questions interwoven with the text, but I could be confusing it with some other Irish novel.

I love the Barrytown trilogy, as I am a big fan of humour-with-meaning. I also admire The Woman Who Walked Into Doors, and bring it as an example whenever people claim that writers cannot use opposite-gender POVs effectively.

Wow, lots of feedback! I'll try to address all the points in good order.

1. Why I wasn't replying

No offense taken at the comments made - I am moving tomorrow night and was packing, and didn't get to much email at all. I read the comments last night but knew I was too worn out to think critically about writing. So I saved them for today at work.

2. Feanor's Age

I was obviously wrong to use the wee! prefix. I don't read that much hobbitfic (the main place I've seen that used) and I assumed it referred to any character who is an adult in the canon but is a child or teenager in the fic.

Feanor is learning a craft *besides* statesmanship. I think as the king's first son he would be expected to learn Elvish history, different social customs of the different kindreds, diplomacy, any language differences, that kind of thing - before he would be allowed to pursue a craft that particularly interested him. Also, he is doing a cutting in crystal which is permanent, and as I've set up is too valuable to be destroyed. I was thinking about penmanship in the early history of American education. Teaching kids to write using paper is a fairly new thing. Historically it was too valuable and so you learned on slates and only graduated to paper once you had some measure of expertise. I'm seeing something similar going on here, though I didn't get it across like I should have.

3. Sulking vs. Fury

I can see this point, and sulking was the wrong word for someone as high-energy as Feanor. I didn't want to make him appear too mad but more peeved because he has to jump into a creative bout. But I'll find another word.

4. Indis

I'm not a Silm expert, you guys know that, and I actually assumed that Finwe did marry while Feanor was still fairly young. But the footnote in Tehta's piece corrected that misconception. So when I was presenting her, I meant her not as Feanor's step-mother but as the woman who would *become* his stepmother eventually - which could mean that she already had a fairly close relationship with his father already. That is why Feanor calls her Indis and Finwe "Father".

5. Shortness of Sentences

That was actually intentional. I know that I can write longer sentences in a drabble, have done it quite often! Though not that much longer because I think my sentences tend to be shorter than most in any fiction. That's because I know I tend to overuse commas and one of the ways I fight that is to sometimes break a longer sentence into two.

However, I can make it clear *why* Feanor is thinking in short bursts. I think this drabble needs to be longer, and I'll work up a new version at 150 words as soon as I finish this post.

6. ConCrit in General

I really love constructive criticism, and all of this definitely counts as that. You've showed me places this piece isn't clear, so I know what needs fixing. So I am most definitely not offended by anything that's been said.

*off to work up version two*

Marta

I will write more about the drabble later, but I just wanted to say that you should not take my footnote as canon, since I can no longer remember where I got the idea that Feanor married Finwe (and couldn't at the time, apparently.) What I am sure of is that the Shibbboleth says that Miriel waited until Feanor was 'full grown' before leaving, while Morgoth's Ring says she left when he was a baby, leaving him for Feanor to raise. Morgoth's Ring also says that Feanor married young.

Any other cites on the subject much appreciated...

What I am sure of is that the Shibbboleth says that Miriel waited until Feanor was 'full grown' before leaving, while Morgoth's Ring says she left when he was a baby, leaving him for Feanor to raise.

I agree with this... From HOME 12 The Shibboleth of Feanor

Feanor loved his mother dearly, though except in obstinacy their characters were widely different. He was not gentle. He was proud and hot-tempered, and opposition to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his mother but with fierce resentment. He was restless in mind and body, though like Miriel he could become wholly absorbed in works of the finest skill of hand; but he left many things unfinished. Feanaro was his mother-name, which Miriel gave him in recognition of his impetuous character (it meant 'spirit of fire'). While she lived she did much with gentle counsel to soften and restrain him.(7) Her death was a lasting grief to Feanor, and both directly and by its further consequences a main cause of his later disastrous influence on the history of the Noldor. The death of Miriel Perinde - death of an 'immortal' Elda in the deathless land of Aman - was a matter of grave anxiety to the Valar, the first presage of the Shadow that was to fall on Valinor. The matter of Finwe and Miriel and the judgement that the Valar after long debate finally delivered upon it is elsewhere told. Only those points that may explain the conduct of Feanor are here recalled. Miriel's death was of free will: she forsook her body and her fea went to the Halls of Waiting, while her body lay as if asleep in a garden. She said that she was weary in body and spirit and desired peace. The cause of her weariness she believed to be the bearing of Feanor, great in mind and body beyond the measure of the Eldar. Her weariness she had endured until he was full grown, but she could endure it no longer.

So technically even a teenager Feanor would not work with Indis in the picture since Finwe started to see Indis when Miriel already forsake her body for a while in Lorien...

Yes, but in Morgoth's Ring (I will look up the details at home) this is contradicted by a long paragraph about how Feanor had to raise a child alone, and be both its parents, after Miriel went to Lorien. So, yes, the usual HoMe confusion...

this is contradicted by a long paragraph about how Feanor had to raise a child alone, and be both its parents, after Miriel went to Lorien. So, yes, the usual HoMe confusion...

Finwe. ;) But I know what you mean.

But then one can counter that Feanor used his mother-name, which is usually given by the mother at the age of ten. See Lace in Morgoth's Ring.

Later there was another ceremony called the Essecilme or 'Name-choosing'. This took place at no fixed date after the Essecarme, but could not take place before the child was deemed ready and capable of lamatyave, as the Noldor called it: that is, of individual pleasure in the sounds and forms of words. The Noldor were of all the Eldar the swiftest in acquiring wordmastery; but even among them few before at least the seventh year had become fully aware of their own individual lamatyave, or had gained a complete mastery of the inherited language and its structure, so as to express this tyave skilfully within its limits. The Essecilme, therefore, the object of which was the expression of this personal characteristic,' usually took place at or about the end of the tenth year.

Feanor's mother's name was Feanoro, his father's name Curufinwe.. (from the top of my head). So... yeah.

Gotta love HOME!

*waves at Marta who probably will think... oh my, what did I start*

Gotta love HOME!

Yeah, you do. Tolkien apparently loved his tales so much he wanted to tell them (at least) twice - pity he chose to not be consistent. ;-)

Having never read the Silm portions of HOME, I had to rely on the Silm. In which it says:

But in the bearing of her son Míriel was consumed in spirit and body; and after his birth she yearned for release from the labours of living. And when she had named him, she said to Finwë: "Never again shall I bear child; for strength that would have nourished the live of many has gone forth into Fëanor."

Then Finwë was grieved, for the Noldor were in the youth of their days, and he desired to bring forth many children into the Mist of Aman; and he said: "Surely there is healing in Aman? Here all weariness can find rest." But when Míriel languished still, Finwë sought the counsel of Manwë, and Manwë delivered her to the care of Irmo in Lórien. At their parting (for a little while as he thought) Finwë was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance that the mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of the son.

"It is indeed unhappy," said Míriel, "and I would weep, if I were not so weary. But hold me blameless in this, and in all that may come after."

She went then to the gardens of Lórien and lay down to sleep; but though she seemed to sleep, her spirit indeed departed from her body, and passed in silence to the halls of Mandos. (Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)

So I take from this the following events.

a. Miriel gives birth and is "consumed in spirit and body"
b. Miriel says she can't have more children
c. Miriel is handed over to Irmo (before the "beginning at least of the childhood days of her son")
d. Miriel dies

I guess it does not say explicitly how much time passed between her being handed over to Irmo and her lying down in the gardens of Lorien and dying. But there's just no indication that it's a long time which I would expect.

Bless Tolkien! Can we agree that the canon is contradictory enough that there's room to support either interpretation? And it's a matter of preference which version we choose to predict.

Uh, that last comment was by me. Just forgot to sign in.

LOL, but given the time between the Essecarme and Essecilme... that is at least 10 years. Sure, long for us Edain, but for elves. So when it says: Finwë was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance that the mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of the son. It can be that Tolkien mentions that. 10 years is nothing for an elf and will pass for them 'quickly'. :) But it wasn't directly after birth that she decided to pass on, there is some time in between so that at least she could name him properly (and very fitting) with his mother-name.

Sorry about the typo.

I don't mean to get into a heated discussion about this or anything: my general stance is that, if there is an inconsistency in Tolkien's work, I don't really care which of the versions an author decides to run with. In the case of mother-names, the Shibboleth says that "the mother-name was given later, often some years later, by the mother; but sometimes it was given soon after birth." And the later Quenta Silmarillion says that Miriel started languishing "when she had named [Feanor]" and that "Finwe was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance that a mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of her son." So, well. It's inconsistent.

I'll comment on the drabble, but I was still wondering why F is thinking in short bursts.

Young!Feanor Drabble

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