Silmarillion Writers&#39; Guild

There is one little exercise that I have seen used in other fandoms that I have never seen with Silmarillion fics is the ficlet or short story composed of a list of five things. I've often wanted to try it, but never have because Silmarillion fics can be oh-so-serious. Anyway, the trope goes something like the following variations:

"Five Times That Maedhros Was Glad to See Fingon And One Time He Wasn't"
"Five People Galadriel Was Not Thrilled To Meet Again When She Returned to Aman"
"Five Things That Feanor Regretted and One He Did Not"

They generally lean toward the humorous, but not necessarily, or they may be written lightly with a serious twist at the end. I've never seen a tragic one, but if anything could produce one it might be the Doom of the Noldor! Not high literature, but, and you have heard my whines before, I can't produce Great Literature (have trouble even coming up with semi-decent copy) on demand.

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I'd disagree that you can't produce Great Literature! ;) This is a cool idea--of course, I love that it involves the number five! :D And is (or tends toward being, at least) light-hearted for a change when most of what we do is Serious-with-a-Capital-S.

Thank you, Oshun! :)

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Cautious about the "tends towards the light-hearted" - remember the variant of this ("Five Things That Never Happened To Maglor Feanorion") that Elleth wrote during B2MeM? Brilliant writing, but "light-hearted" it is not! I think the Silmarillion has a tendency to turn the most cheerful meme serious. ;)

That said, with the "Five..." starter, it would be a very suitable idea for celebrating a fifth birthday!
(BTW, the SWG main page still says that it was founded "two years ago" -- seems that the archive doesn't want to age! ;))

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Oh, yes, that would be a brilliant and beautiful exception to the "lighthearted as a general rule" rule! :D

BTW, the SWG main page still says that it was founded "two years ago" -- seems that the archive doesn't want to age! ;)

The SWG is getting a new front page for its birthday! Or, at least, sometime around it's birthday. So it won't be able to lie about it's age anymore. ;)

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(Five Things That Never Happened To Maglor Feanorion") that Elleth wrote during B2MeM? Brilliant writing

I had forgotten that one! I have to re-read it!

I think the Silmarillion has a tendency to turn the most cheerful meme serious.

Seriously! I mean really! Even I am at the point of writing more and more serious Silm fic.

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You're generous! (About the stories I mean--I blew my 2009 B2Me project which I had nearly completed, by getting too involved in my short story, which I really like, "I Hate You." I'm not sorry I wrote that, but was hopping mad that I had come so close to actually fulfilling a month of prompts, but then found one I really liked and that was it. I missed the two or three remaining days because I had to work on that one!

I can't see planning a month's extravaganza around my suggestion. But maybe in conjuction with something else.... I'll keep thinking. Five is one of my favorite numbers.

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ithilwen.livejournal.com

Oooh, I like this idea! And a challenge that produces light-hearted fic might be just the thing for a birthday party. Doom and gloom don't go nearly as well with ice cream and cake.

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I think it would be fun. OMG! There are a million and one of them in the BBC Merlin fandom--the majority pure crack!fic, but then so is the canon source.

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I'm glad you like the idea. I have been turning some variations over in my head. It's kind of addictive to think in that format. It takes the pressure off that comes with thinking that one is supposed to be producing A Lasting Work Of Art.

And I'll agree with Dawn about you . . ."

You are another one who is always good to me. Thank you!

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I love Oshun's idea about the "Five Things". Maybe combine that with a contest?

It would be cool to have a month of festivities, maybe a different thing every week...?

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Perhaps a different challenge each week with the chance to vote for awards both silly and serious? "Five Things" could be one of the challenges. (I'm just thinking out loud ... erm, in pixels? ;)

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I like that! I was going to suggest the silly awards thing, actually; I'm moderating a Harry Potterf fest where we're going to give out awards for stuff like "Most Creative Use of Amortentia", something like that would be fun. :D

I also really liked what you guys did with Seven in 07; the 'compilation' thing of all those different fanworks. Maybe every week there could be a little mini-compilation of various fanworks, things like fic, art, editorials, fun things and all that jazz? :) I guess the works would need to be done in advance, but it might compliment the challenges well? Just a thought. :) *is excited*

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The neat thing about the 'compilation' for Seven in 07, was lots of it was harvested from already complete works or WIPs. The idea of celebrating five years of activity could include an opportunity to point to things that have been done.

I know I am a minority of one about not wanting to put side my current projects to introduce something totally new and different--it has a very negative effect on me. It breaks my momentum when I have one (hard enough for me, since I live in a constant state of writer's block) and makes it hard for me to pick up where I left off before, unless it is easy and simple. Lots of people, like my friend, IgnobleBard, just to mention one, are the exact opposite. He is always looking for prompts and basically uses such events and fic swaps almost exclusively to inspire him to write.

Edited Date: 2010-05-31 10:35 pm (UTC)

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Hee, I just have to laugh at your comment about being a minority of one, hee. I think I've experienced it on both ends - challenges have inspired me out of dry spells, or forced me to put something out when the alternative was nothing, but they've also broken my momentum on ongoing projects, as you say.

I think your idea of using a compilation to point to older works is a great idea, though - the challenges can serve for inspiring new things, while the compilations can help us celebrate what we've managed to accomplish. It'll be all significant and meaningful. :P ;) :D

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challenges have inspired me out of dry spells, or forced me to put something out when the alternative was nothing, but they've also broken my momentum on ongoing projects, as you say

I do have a trick I use. I occasionally pull a rabbit out of my shabby hat in the form of responding to a prompt with an already started story or idea I have been mulling over for years. That was how I finally got around to writing my short story, "I Hate You." Which had been thoroughly plotted and thought about over a long period of time (around two-three years!), just waiting to be written. But if someone says, "Write X about Tar-what's-his-name in Numenor! Now! You have a month!" I am dead in the water.

the challenges can serve for inspiring new things, while the compilations can help us celebrate what we've managed to accomplish

I would adore something that incorporated that format.

Edited Date: 2010-05-31 11:57 pm (UTC)

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I would adore something that incorporated that format.

I will keep this in mind! :) We really want to include as many people as possible in this. Normally, I'm not worried about specializing, like Akallabeth in August or S07, because we do a couple things each year, so something for everyone, in theory, rolls around. But this is our fifth birthday! (Yeah, I'm feeling all sentimental about it. ;) Everyone--including those minorities of one--is to credit for bringing us to this point, so I really want to try to accomplish the impossible and have something for everyone.

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Awww! And thank you. I felt sentimental as soon as I saw your post. (Back to Finwe--still almost done!)

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Maybe every week there could be a little mini-compilation of various fanworks, things like fic, art, editorials, fun things and all that jazz?

I like that! Especially since (as I noted to Oshun in a comment down-thread), it includes everyone. I normally don't worry about specializing for our events, since we do lots of things and something should eventually roll around to appeal to someone, but I really want this one to be as inclusive as possible.

For Back to Middle-earth Month '08, we did compilations similar to S07 except each day had a theme and contributors could submit anything that fit that theme in their view. Perhaps participants could suggest different themes to appeal to a wide array of interests? Oshun's "five things" could be one such theme, as could ... well, just about anything. And then anyone who wants to contribute something for that theme--whether new or old; artwork, stories, commentary, whatever!--can do so.

(Thinking aloud again, of course. ;)

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ford-of-bruinen.livejournal.com

I think I like this idea :) Has it been 5 years already? My dawn, we are getting old. ;)

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I know! Time flies! Seems like just yesterday, you were nudging me over an email, saying something like, "Dawn, you started this group, what do you say we get it some members?" :)

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I am totally down with thinking aloud in pixels (hee). :D

I think what you've suggested up there is great, because it's pretty festive and I can't honestly think of anything more inclusive! :) Although, I do wonder if a theme a day won't be full on, but OTOH, this is a big occasion! And it will allow for more 'specific' themes like Oshun's "five things" suggestion (or any of the suggestions below). :)

I actually also like Oloriel's more generic prompt suggestions; and wonder if alternatively, there could be a theme-a-week instead. So, prompts like "celebration", "harvest", etc, which could suit the summer season (yay summer!) and also add to the celebratory aspect of it all. :)

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Although, I do wonder if a theme a day won't be full on

After Akallabeth in August last year ... yes, it's a lot of work! :) I think it will depend on if we can get the collections together ahead of time. Then it's not so bad.

I actually also like Oloriel's more generic prompt suggestions

I like both! I'm terribly indecisive! :D If we went with letting everyone create a challenge, we might get a nice mix.

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I don't have any ideas, but I do like the idea of a challenge/contest and compilation format.

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Thanks, Indy--so far, it looks like a popular idea! And a happy belated birthday too. :)

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Thank you! :D

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I had another challenge idea that came to me while I was falling asleep (so it's probably nonsense), namely a sort of temporal challenge that touches all the five (see what I did there? ;)) ages covered by the books (Trees, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) - either based around one character (which of course limits the field somewhat) or one place or one particular event - say, "harvest" or "journey" or "breakfast" or "New Year's" or whatever - which is broader, and leaves a lot of room for every writer's personal favourites. Does that appear to make sense? I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of explaining it... >_>

Pity you already used the "celebrations/festival" prompt for B2MeM! ;)

I also really like the compilation idea, as a sort of gallery for retrospection and inspiration for the future and all them deep things.

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Considering that SWG was born out of a night of insomnia, I'd say that middle-of-the-night ideas are considered good around here. ;) I think it's a cool idea too! I especially like that it can be made inclusive of just about anything, which (as noted above) is really important to me for this particular event.

Pity you already used the "celebrations/festival" prompt for B2MeM! ;)

Don't doubt that I can't remix the same challenge endlessly! ;) I am terrible at making up challenges yet often have to do it. We've had repeats over the years. Between all of the events and the regular challenges, I doubt anyone notices. (Or I hope they don't!)

I also really like the compilation idea, as a sort of gallery for retrospection and inspiration for the future and all them deep things.

Me too! It does have a nice symbolic meaning. :)

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Utter n00b here, so feel free to disregard. :)

I have this kind of neat idea that I'm going to use in a chapter of a story, but don't mind sharing and letting others have a crack at because I'm really curious to see how other people would approach it.

I was thinking the other day about the music of the Ainur, and how there were, in total, three themes made - not one. Eru Illuvatar scrapped the first two, because Melkor was being a butthead, and ended up running with the third theme. Then I started thinking, what happened to the first two themes? These were, essentially, alternative versions of Arda - or, according to multiverse theory, parallel universes.

What if the echoes of their themes still resonated within the Void? What if, every so often, notes from the first and second themes sounded in the third? Most probably you'd have a character tortured by 'what might have been' visions. You could also have a scenario where they realise things could've been so much worse. Or someone is plagued by nightmares. Stuff like that.

Though the most exciting prospect for this prompt (for me, anyway) is the thought of a someone elf/man/dwarf/hobbit/orc/whatever, making the discovery of the first and second themes - realising that these strange moments are part of the ancient make-up of their universe, and how this discovery betters their understanding of their world - or throws up more questions. It's like physics meets Tolkien. XD

Edit: I've beeing sitting thinking more about this, and I've inadvertently inspired myself. Some of the technology of the elves could be due to an understanding (or partial understanding) of the other themes of Eru. Galadriel's Mirror, which shows you visions of the past, present and future, could be a device which shows what happened in the first or second themes of Eru. Feanor's palantir could also pierce veils between parallel dimensions, or could be able to see to the furthest, coldest and most remote corners of the universe. The removal of Aman from the circles of the world could be Eru ripping it from one dimension and placing it into another...

This is nothing to do with the prompt. Now I'm just rambling, and I really hope that you've not used a prompt like this before, because I will feel very stupid. :p

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I have to admit that I never understood the Ainulindale in that way - three themes, two scrapped, one "executed" - but rather that all the three themes together make up the music that makes up the world (rather like the several movements that make up one symphony). I mean, Melkor was being a butthead in the third theme as well, so by that logic it'd have made for sense to chuck Melkor out of the orchestra and then go for a fourth theme... no?

That said, the "parallel universes" idea is nonetheless quite intriguing, though of course much of it is being explored in AU or the more "heretical" fanfics anway. Nonetheless, food for thought. Hmmm...

(I don't think you'd have to feel stupid even if there had been an exact prompt like this before. Even in Silm fandom it's probably impossible to come up with something that nobody has ever ever thought of before. So, no worries!)

Edited Date: 2010-06-01 02:49 pm (UTC)

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First off, I guess I should say hello, since I haven't really introduced myself. So... hi there! :) I like your icon. Is that Delerium and Barnabas?

"I have to admit that I never understood the Ainulindale in that way - three themes, two scrapped, one "executed" - but rather that all the three themes together make up the music that makes up the world (rather like the several movements that make up one symphony)."

I actually agree with you too. I just thought the concept of potential but unrealised themes would make for some cool, cosmologically trippy stories. And I guess you could justify Eru not chucking Melkor out of the orchestra. Maybe Eru thought, "Man, this guy's a pain, but he's first violin. Bah, let's just go with this one. It's kinda catchy..."

Yeah, I'm bending canon to breaking point just to fit in my mad ideas, and it is a stretch. I guess this makes me a heretic?

If the SWG is devoted to canon-purity, then I might have to stick to ff.net. I'm an unrepentant canon-bender. :(

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Hi there and welcome! Yes, the icon's indeed of Sandman origins! :)

First off, I'm sorry if this came across as canon-pushy or anything of the sort. That was not my intention (nor is it my conviction, come to that). I'm not the moderator of the SWG or anything so I can't guarantee anything, but I think there's a healthy share of "heretics" among us. There's definitely no enforced canon(whatever that may be ;))-purity - most of us love to explore new, unusual and "uncanonical" ideas, so you'll fit in wonderfully. :) So please don't worry there!

So my reply to your suggestion wasn't meant to berate you for your interpretation of things - it was more curiosity on my part. It's happened before that I completely misinterpreted bits of Tolkien's cosmology and only found out after years (and rather by chance), so I was rather interested whether that had happened again. I didn't mean to come across in a "you're wrong and I'll tell you what's right" way, so if that happened, I'm sorry again!

Whatever interpretation is "right", your idea definitely could lead to some very interesting stories. I especially like the "physics meet Tolkien" angle. (And a while back I started a sort of crossover between Tolkien and Phillip Pullman's His Dark Material, so this challenge might grant the poor neglected fic a chance to be continued...)

As for Eru, hey, he created Melkor-the-pain-in-the-butt, so it's all his own fault. ;)

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Oh, I feel so much better now. :) I'm always a bit nervous when posting in new communities, and I've come across quite a few Tolkien communities who have an almost reverence for the literary interpretation of Tolkien's words (which is a kind of difficult thing to do, if you ask me.) You probably know the types. They can be pretty brutual, even if you only break it accidentally. I'm glad the SWG has at least some heretics lurking around. I guess I have come to the right place. :)

And you didn't come across as canon-pushy. Not at all! In fact, you've been really nice. I was just worried, is all. XD

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So, I'm just a busybody bystander here, and I know Oloriel's also responded to your comment... I'm not even one of the particularly active people on SWG - although I do show my face occasionally - but one thing I can tell you for certain is that SWG is not devoted to canon-purity. :) Not to say that we like to stomp all over canon with disrespect, lol, but it's one of the most open-minded places I know of! :) And many SWG members will gladly proclaim themselves canon-heretics, hee. (And I have to admit, they've converted me, too.)

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Hi, Klose! Thanks for replying. :)

"Not to say that we like to stomp all over canon with disrespect, lol, but it's one of the most open-minded places I know of! :)"

That sounds just perfect. Canon is there to provide the framework, so you've got to know it. Once it's there, the open-minds can build upon it and come up with new and wonderful ideas.

I think I'm going to have fun here. :)

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:D It's really awesome to have new blood... we're a small group, so it's always wonderful to have new people joining us. And from what you've said, I think you'll be a perfect fit. :D

For what it's worth, I like your "what might have been" connected with the First/Second Musics idea, although exam stress induced brain fry is preventing me from commenting more substantively. *g*

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If the SWG is devoted to canon-purity, then I might have to stick to ff.net. I'm an unrepentant canon-bender. :(

If you identify as a heretic, you will be on good company on SWG. One of our founding principles is the antithesis of canaticism: We welcome any and all interpretations, no matter how wild or tame, and all types of writing. If it's legal in the U.S. (since our servers are located in the U.S.) and it's Silmfic, it's welcome on our group. ;)

In fact, a good number of us (myself included) don't even believe in a thing called "canon," i.e. a right and wrong way to read the texts. And we work hard every day on proving that to the rest of the Tolkien community. ;)

So bend away! I look forward to reading the results. :)

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Canaticism. I'm loving that word. Think I'm going to have to use it.

"In fact, a good number of us (myself included) don't even believe in a thing called "canon," i.e. a right and wrong way to read the texts."

Makes sense to me. I've always thought of the Valaquenta and the Ainulindale as creation myths (blindingly obvious) and the later Quenta Silmarillion as more like historical documents from an ancient time, in that they're really not going to be comprehensive or one-hundred percent accurate all the time, so you have to treat it with a pinch of salt.

I think I've come to the right place. Thanks for replying! :)

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Welcome!

That's a fascinating idea, even though it's unconventional. (Actually, that's what makes in fascinating.)

If the SWG is devoted to canon-purity, then I might have to stick to ff.net. I'm an unrepentant canon-bender.

*points to icon* Feel free to take with credit. Also, I post on both ff.net and SWG-- and I prefer the latter. I'm actually a bit nervous to the reaction I might get on ff.net because while I'm not as heretical as some people, I still am one, and there's an unfortunate tendency for our type of interpretations to get flamed and/or mocked.

Edited Date: 2010-06-01 10:43 pm (UTC)

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there's an unfortunate tendency for our type of interpretations to get flamed and/or mocked.

I've had the same experience, Indy. While I don't want to disparage any archive, ff.net tends, in my experience, to draw a lot of people whose knowledge of "canon" has come from reading a lot of canatic stories on ff.net. A lot of times, I lack the energy to post there because I am unable to let sleeping dogs lie and always feel the need to engage in lengthy replies debunking their misconceptions. ;)

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I'm lucky enough to never have been flamed-- yet. I'm anticipating negative comments from some of the things that'll happen in RAFA (or even just mentioned). I'm not ruling out the possibility of flames. (And I'm honestly expecting to be roasted when I edit and post my thralls story.)

I think what'll annoy me the most if I get those types of comments is if they're anonymous specifically because I can't respond to them.

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I don't know that I've ever been flamed--as in being told to take to take a long walk off a short pier--but I've gotten some pretty nasty reviews on ff.net. I must confess that I shut off anonymous comments there ... too many people use them so as not to be accountable for their words and actions. And not being able to reply was unbearable! :^P

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independence1776 - Date: 2010-06-02 02:22 am (UTC) - Expand

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Hi there. :) Thanks for the reply. You people are all really nice - such a rare thing on online communities. Seriously, there are far too many thirteen year old internet-badasses kicking about.

And I never realised there were so many canatics on ff.net. I've flitted through a fair few fandoms and I've never had trouble with canon-pickers there. I suppose it must be a feature of the Tolkien fandom. Thanks for the heads-up, though.

Loving the heretic badge-of-honour icon. ;)

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SWG is the nicest place online I know of. Flames and wank simply aren't tolerated.

Yup. I checked your profile page there, and I think I know why you haven't had much trouble: you began posting after the "chief" flamer in the Silm section deleted her forum. (Though I'm inactive there save for posting that I honestly don't know if the amount of flames has gone down.) But the thing is, the Silm section is nothing compared to LotR proper. I've talked to people who have been driven off the site because of the flamers. Dare to write movieverse? Be prepared to be laughed at. Write a romance featuring Legolas and an OFC? Flames are incoming. Dare to write something that's against the most common interpretation? You're lucky if you're ignored. Slash? Tolkien fandom still hasn't had the conversation that homosexuals in fanfic is a good thing. (And most sections of it won't, because Tolkien was Catholic and therefore his views trump everything, including perfectly valid reader interpretation.) Write an OFC period? She'll be called a Mary Sue no matter how well-written she is, even if she's not in a romance with any canon character. Tolkien fandom has dedicated mocking and MSTing communities. That's how bad this fandom is.

Um, sorry for the length and rantiness. I don't want to scare you off-- just letting you know the reality. As you can tell, I'm not terribly fond of ff.net. I only post there because I know there are people who don't know other archives exist. *hugs SWG*

I made the icon for a reason. :D

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Welcome!!

If the SWG is devoted to canon-purity, then I might have to stick to ff.net. I'm an unrepentant canon-bender. :(

The SWG has room for it all! Although, I would guess there are more heretics than canatics, although the heretics tend to be a bit on the geekish side (I would put myself there).

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Hi there! :)

As you can probably tell from the rest of my replies, I'm pretty glad the SWG is made up of open-minded and slightly geekish types. From what I can see, I've already set myself up to join that eccentric section of the Tolkien fandom, so I might as well hold up my hands and claim heretic status too. XD

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Utter n00b here, so feel free to disregard. :)

Never! I was a n00b myself when I started SWG, so newcomers are always welcome to contribute here; you could say we have a long tradition of good ideas from newbies. ;) And a belated welcome, too! "Peculiar" is on my reading list for when my life settles down enough to read again. (My life being in a constant state of upheaval right now. :)

Though the most exciting prospect for this prompt (for me, anyway) is the thought of a someone elf/man/dwarf/hobbit/orc/whatever, making the discovery of the first and second themes - realising that these strange moments are part of the ancient make-up of their universe, and how this discovery betters their understanding of their world - or throws up more questions. It's like physics meets Tolkien. XD

I think that this is a really cool idea! :) And if I'm not mistaken, you've just demonstrated the canonicity of AU. Our heresy here on SWG is reaching new heights! >:^)

I've beeing sitting thinking more about this, and I've inadvertently inspired myself.

Those are some really cool interpretations of the multiple-dimension idea! Have you started writing any of them? (I'm hoping you have at least by the time I clear my schedule for reading again!)

I think you will fit in here just fine. ;)

Now I'm just rambling, and I really hope that you've not used a prompt like this before

No we haven't ... and even if we had, between challenges for events (like this year's B2MeM, which had sixty-some challenge prompts) and our regular challenges, no one knows all of the prompts we've used because we've probably amassed a couple hundred by now. Even I don't know them all, and I invented most of the darned things. So you're good. ;)

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