SWG Re-read: Valaquenta Discussion Post

[independence1776]

And this is our second post. It also includes a short summary, stuff we found interesting, notes on earlier versions, and a few questions to get you started.

Important: This is not a spoiler-free zone. It is hard to discuss any chapter in depth without referring to things that happen in later chapters. Proceed at your own risk!

Valaquenta

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Summary

~ Valaquenta: This chapter tells of the Valar, Maiar, and their Enemies. The kinds of Valar and Maiar are properly together called Ainur and they came to the world at the beginning of time.

The Valar: Manwë is the Elder King and rules Arda, with his specialty being the air. His wife Varda is associated with the stars and she is revered among the Elves for this. Ulmo is the Lord of the Waters and never abandoned the Elves and Men. Aulë’s lordship is over the earth. His wife is Yavanna, whose specialty is plants. Námo (also called Mandos) is the lord of the dead. His wife is Vairë, who weaves the past. Irmo, in charge of dreams, is Námo’s brother and rules Lórien, the garden of rest in Valinor. His wife is Estë, who heals hurts and weariness. Nienna is Námo and Irmo’s sister and she grieves for Arda. Tulkas is known for his strength. His wife is Nessa, who dances. Her brother is Oromë, who loves Middle-earth and is a hunter. His wife is Vána, the younger sister of Yavanna, and flowers bloom when she passes.

The Maiar: They are the lesser kindred of the Valar. Eönwë is Manwë’s herald. Ossë is a vassal of Ulmo, who once paid heed to Melkor’s words. His wife Uinen returned him to the Valar’s allegiance. Melian is associate with nightingales and plays a larger role in The Silmarillion Olórin is the wisest of the Maiar and learned much from Nienna. His most well-known name is Gandalf.

The Enemies: Melkor began as the Manwë’s equal but chose to fall into darkness. He is now named Morgoth for his crimes. His greatest servant is Sauron.

Our Favourite Quotes

~ "But she [Nienna] does not weep for herself; and those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope."

~ "Too great is [Varda's] beauty to be declared in the words of Men or of Elves; for the light of Ilúvatar lives still in her face. In light is her power and her joy."

~ "For the arising of the King of the Sea was terrible, as a mounting wave that strides to the land, with dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green. The trumpets of Manwë are loud, but Ulmo's voice is deep as the deeps of the ocean which he only has seen.
Nonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar."

~ "Some there are who have seen [Yavanna] standing like a tree under heaven, crowned with the Sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth, and it grew green with corn; but the roots of the tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwë spoke in its leaves."

~ "Vairë the Weaver [...] weaves all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs, and the halls of Mandos that ever widen as the ages pass are clothed with them."

~ "From splendour [Melkor] fell through arrogance to contempt for all things save himself, a spirit wasteful and pitiless."

Other Versions

~ The “Valaquenta” began life in The Book of Lost Tales as “The Coming of the Valar.” It is significantly different than the text in The Silmarillion. Nienna was originally a mistress of death and wife to Mandos. Oromë was a son of Aulë and Palúrien (Yavanna). And some of them-- Makar and Meássë, for example-- disappeared. Also, the Valar had children. They were also properly gods, and only later were reduced to angelic "Powers" whom "Men have often called [...] gods."

~ In The Shaping of Middle-earth, “The Quenta,” Qenta Noldorinwa, the opening section is more recognizable in form to the final “Valaquenta” text. Among other changes, Oromë has made the leap from son to Vala, though Nienna still dwells with Mandos.

~ In Morgoth’s Ring, “The Annals of Aman”, the short opening section lists many of the Valar. Nienna is now accounted as Manwë and Melkor’s sister and that she dwells alone. Vairë now exists and is Mandos’ wife. The Valar still have children.

~ From Morgoth’s Ring, “The Later Quenta Silmarillion”, “The First Phase” comes “Of the Valar.” Ossë now answers to Ulmo. Fionwë is named son of Manwë but is transformed by Tolkien's in-text edit to Eönwë, herald of Manwë. Nienna remains a brother to Manwë and Melkor, though that was corrected in a single instance of one copy of the text to Námo’s sister. This is also the first time that a section dealing specifically with the Maiar was added, and Sauron’s first mention in the “Valaquenta”’s context.

~ We also find in Morgoth’s Ring the first proper “Valaquenta” texts. There are two versions, the second of which gained for the first time the title and became a seperate chapter. According Christopher Tolkien’s editorial note, Vq1 was the innovating version and Vq2 the stylistic. Among other changes, Ossë and Uinen become Maiar. The conception of the Aratar appears. There is no mention of any children of the Valar. Vq2 is the text that became the Silmarillion text, with some editorial changes (many, but not all, dealing with tense).

Food for Thought

~ Who is your favorite of the Valar and/or Maiar? Why?

~ Where the changes made to the Valar-- additions, subtractions, etc.-- a good or bad thing? Which version do you prefer?

~ The Greek, Roman and Germanic gods that Tolkien would've been familiar with had children, whereas angels in the Abrahamic tradition are infertile and sexless. Do you think the changes made to the Valar are linked to this?

~ Do you think the Valar and Maiar have Free Will?

Works Cited

The Silmarillion. "Valaquenta"
The Book of Lost Tales 1. "The Coming of the Valar"
The Shaping of Middle-earth. “The Quenta,” Qenta Noldorinwa
Morgoth's Ring. “The Annals of Aman”
Morgoth's Ring. “The Later Quenta Silmarillion”, The First Phase, “Of the Valar”
Morgoth's Ring "The Valaquenta"

Please note: We don't know everything and it's perfectly possible that we missed something. These summaries and questions are by no means supposed to be complete and exhaustive. If you have looked further into this particular topic or would like to discuss something that we've overlooked, please share it!

“Of the Beginning of Days” and “Of Aulë and Yavanna” are due on January 26.

Comments

[hhimring]

These posts are so well put together! Many thanks to both of you!

When I first read the Silmarillion, my favourite Vala was Nienna, hands-down. At the time, I thought she was the most original of the lot--and that she made the whole concept of the Valar more humane and accessible to modern sensibilities. So it was very interesting to find, later on, that Fui Nienna had changed so much in the course of her career, so to speak.

But also, since then, and perhaps especially as I began writing fan fiction about the Noldor, I seem to have gradually become more sceptical of her role, somehow. She no longer seems such a guarantee of "humane and accessible". I wonder whether anyone else has had their feelings about her shift a bit?

[rawr-balrog.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings about Nienna. I really love that there is a Vala whose primary purpose is to represent empathy and mercy, and as such, I feel like I should love her. But she seems so divorced from the others that I don't see how her role could really hold any weight. I suppose one would think that someone with a role like hers would have more of a direct hand in guiding the actions of the Valar and of the Elves, but at least in my reading she doesn't seem to.

[elliska.livejournal.com]

I'm answering off the top of my head without having re-read or anything so I might be way off based. Having made that disclaimer... :-)

I have also always loved the idea of Nienna and wished she could have had a more 'on stage' role. But, I do see her presence. Do I remember correctly that Gandalf is said to have often gone to visit her and learned the value of pity and mercy from her? That being the case, she had a big impact, albeit indirectly, in the War of the Ring, since Gandalf councils pity for Gollum etc. And don't other characters (elves, obviously) refer to going to her gardens to heal from their grief? That gives her some role, at least.

[dreamflower]

I think that you are right: her influence on Gandalf made a MAJOR impact on the War of the Ring. The entire resolution was based on mercy--it was built into the plan.

So I think people underestimate that influence.

I think the contributions of Nienna permeate the entire world.

[independence1776]

I never made the jump from "student of Nienna" to "major albeit indirect part of the Ring War." Thank you!

[independence1776]

You're welcome! (When I read this comment, I'd already begun wondering if they were too formal or off-putting or something due to the lack of comments. So I appreciate the compliment.)

(Now speaking as a participant.)

Neinna's one of my favorites due to the "learn pity and endurance in hope" thing. But she doesn't appear to have much of a role outside of it, and it does seem that she should. At least, maybe she should have reminded Manwë that there were more people in Beleriand than just Kinslayers.

As for her changing role: that was actually one of the hardest things about this discussion post-- I knew things had changed thanks to comments and fics, but I didn't know exactly how much. And I'm still far from an expert on the subject.

To the question you ask: my feelings about her haven't really changed over the years. But my thoughts have her being, rather than "humane and accessible," more a conception of mercy/pity/endurance in hope embodied in a living being. At the same time, I've always found the concept of a character whose primary task is mourning for the world to be intriguing. I'm honestly not sure I can explain much beyond that.

[rathanylakan.livejournal.com]

This is my first read and Nienna really stood out to me as an original and interesting concept. Also, it fits will with the very bittersweet tone of LOTR.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

I've been particularly interested in the Valier, because Tolkien's description makes them look quite harmless and inactive, relative to the Valar, but once you start looking more closely at the implications of their roles and relationships, they aren't necessarily so.

Yavanna is the lady of living things, and that means that she is the lady of death as well, because they can't be separated. And if you look at Vaire, the implication is that she knows everything that anyone does, anywhere; she is Knowledge, without which Mandos cannot Judge. One also thinks of the Valkyries weaving their web of battle in Njal's Saga, which Tolkien surely knew.

Blood rains from the cloudy web
On the broad loom of slaughter.
The web of man grey as armor
Is now being woven; the Valkyries
Will cross it with a crimson weft.

The warp is made of human entrails;
Human heads are used as heddle-weights;
The heddle rods are blood-wet spears;
The shafts are iron-bound and arrows are the shuttles.
With swords we will weave this web of battle.

The Valkyries go weaving with drawn swords...

Nessa, once you start thinking about it, cannot just be a heavenly hoofer, given the cultural significance of dance worldwide. Think of Shiva Nataraja creating the cosmos as He dances and Kali dancing on the bodies of defeated demons and Ishtar, whose playground is the battlefield, and the maenads in their holy frenzy. Or Luthien, singing and (in one of the earlier versions of the story) dancing Morgoth into sleep while she and Beren make off with the Silmaril.

[luthiensong.livejournal.com]

My favorite is Yavanna as well, I'm looking forward to a discussion of her creation of the two trees.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

If I had to decide on Vala Most Likely To Rebel Against Eru In Future, I'd actually choose Yavanna.

[erendis1.livejournal.com]

I hope this isn't too belated a response, but I want you to know that I love your insight regarding Nessa and dancing. I never connected her to anything remotely somber or serious before. I always thought Tolkien was being rather ridiculous associating her with dancing. The connection to Hinduism is just amazing. I can only think of making connections to Abrahamic and European traditions.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

I doubt if Tolkien intended any Hindu connection, but certainly dance has been a sacred art in the West too. King David and various Israelites did a lot of dancing and singing, as did the Egyptians and the Greeks. It was a major part of Shaker and possibly other Non-conformist worship too. So dance as an aspect of divine activity and creativity would not have been that alien to Tolkien.

Think of the Maenads in their frenzy, and it is very easy to see a dangerous side to Nessa.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

Other random thoughts:

1 In most Primary World cosmologies, Yavanna would be the most senior goddess, being the Valie of all living things, the Earth Mother. Tolkien puts her second, after Varda, who as Valie of light would normally be a male deity in Primary World mythologies, which probably reflects the Christian framework of his thinking.

2 I tried to think about what the Valar would be Anthropomorphic Personifications of:

Manwe: The Laws of Thermodynamics, with Melkor as Entropy
Varda: The Electromagnetic Spectrum
Aule: Matter
Yavanna: Life (and Death)
Ulmo: Water (no life without it)

These are the Big Five(or Six) basic, necessary-for-existence powers, and everyone else would be secondary

Vaire: Knowledge
Mandos: Judgement
Nienna: Mercy and Pity (two different concepts)
Este and Lorien : Healing- physical and psychological
Tulkas and Nessa: Battle and Conflict
Orome: Protection and security, hunting/killing
Vana: Springtime, which suggests life renewed and sexual reproduction

Analysed like this, it makes sense of Tolkien's descriptions, both of the spousal pairs and the non-spousal associations. Of the latter, the friendship of Yavanna and Ulmo fits together under the scheme as I see it, and Yavanna and Orome, and Yavanna and Nessa as well, since conflict is a necessary part of life, and so is killing for sustenance. Tolkien did suggest that Melkor had a hand in it as well, but all sustenance beyond photosynthesis requires the death of something, either animals or plants. Likewise the Mandos-Vaire-Nienna association, since both Justice and Mercy require Knowledge to be properly applied. Manwe and Melkor of course cannot be separated, which makes sense of Melkor's influence on the Song.

[independence1776]

These are all very interesting points. Thank you!

[dreamflower]

This is a chapter I have usually just kind of skimmed. But this time I tried to pay attention.

On the surface, it seems like a traditional pantheon of pagan gods and goddesses, but the divisions of power are not at all traditional.

I also like the idea of Nienna. A goddess of Sorrow, Pity and Mercy seems unique--I honestly can't recall such a deity in the Greco-Roman pantheon, but I'm not all that familiar with other pantheons to be certain.

As to her influence, I would posit that it's far more pervasive in Middle-earth than just looking at this chapter would indicate.

I agree with elliska that her influence on Gandalf is major. But even more so is the resolution of the Third Age: the true solution to the problem of Sauron and the Ring relied on compassion and mercy and grace to win the day.

In the long run, military might and weapons were only a delaying tactic--it was the Pity that both Bilbo and Frodo had shown to Gollum that led to victory.

And it was Gandalf, who learned from Nienna, who influenced them.

Her role is built into the very fabric of Arda.

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

You know, after reading all your thoughts about Nienna, I've really reconsidered her. So far, she's been one of the Valier about whom I really didn't care ("nice and harmless, but boring" ;)) and thus didn't think much - so elliska's and your thoughts about her influence on Gandalf and her implicit role (or the role of her aspects, at the least) in the defeat of Sauron were a real eye-opener. Thank you!

I can't think of any corresponding figure in the Greco-Roman pantheon, nor among the Norse gods, though I have to admit that I really only know the major "faces" of either pantheon. Her initial role - goddess of the dead who judged Men, sure, that's pretty much Norse Hel - but the later development towards Pity and Mercy really is quite different. I suspect that "Mary, full of Grace" (in the sense of "mercy", not in the sense of "charm") may have been a major influence there...

[dreamflower]

You know, you very well could be right about the Marian aspect of Nienna! That would make perfect sense.

I've always believed that JRRT's strong emphasis on Pity (he always capitalized that) and on grace are the ways in which his faith shows itself most clearly.

Most first time readers are shocked at the scene in Mount Doom, in which Frodo finally falls to the pressure of the Ring, and Gollum ends up being the one to see it into the Fire. And yet through the entire story, this denouement is foreshadowed--not the least by Gandalf's statement that "the Pity of Bilbo might rule the fates of many".

For several years now, I have believed that the defining moment of LotR happened in TH, when Bilbo literally took a leap of faith and spared Gollum.

And so much of that was due to Gandalf's faith in hobbits, and Bilbo in particular. And he was attracted to hobbits specifically by the Pity they showed one another during the Long Winter: a quality he had been taught to value above all others by Nienna.

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

It's so fascinating to see how a particular thread keeps reappearing again and again. Pity really is a defining one, but now I wonder whether Tolkien even did that consciously (to some extent, sure, but every single instance? Then again, I guess he spent more than enough time agonising over his writing!), or whether things just fell into place...

[dreamflower]

The thing that strikes me so strongly when reading the parts of HoMe that deal with LotR and in reading HoTH, is how often Tolkien suddenly seems inspired to completely do away with a certain train of thought and a certain plot line and takes another step in the direction of The Story As We Know It. (His sudden decision in TH to not have Bilbo be the dragonslayer is a definite example.)

My belief (and it is guided by the same principals as JRRT's own faith) is that by his opening himself to the idea that his work was a sub-Creation he literally opened himself to divine inspiration. And his openness was rewarded. Sometimes, I am sure he made deliberate choices; but other times, I honestly believe he was guided. And he believed the same. In Letter #153 he writes: "But as it is--though it seems to have grown out of hand, so that parts of it seem (to me) rather revealed through me than by me..."

Of course, that's just my thoughts about it.

[zedille.livejournal.com]

A point about Varda I noted; Tolkien states that Out of the deeps of Eä [Varda] came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her and feared her more than all others whom Eru made. that rejection reminds me of the incident between Fëanor and Galadriel (I couldn't remember this myself, but I am told it was Unfinished Tales) when he asks her three times for her hair, and she rejects him. This is a mostly superficial resemblance -- Fëanor, no matter his faults, is still obviously not Morgoth -- but both these background rejections set the stage for later events (this is more obvious with Fëanor who's driven to create the Silmarils; it's dubious whether a hypothetically accommodating Varda would have been able to "set Melkor straight" or affect him meaningfully at all.)

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

Oooh, nice catch! We'll have to keep this in mind for the later chapters on Fëanor. :D Thank you!

[greenknight33.livejournal.com]

Great post! This is my second time reading the Silmarillion and I am trying to focus a bit more critically on things this time around as far as my broader Tolkien studies go. With that being said, while I was reading the Valaquenta I was doing a mental exercise in my mind to try to match each Valar with a god/goddess from the world’s major mythic traditions that Tolkien would have been familiar with. While I certainly saw shades of everything from Greco-Roman to Norse and Irish deities, and perhaps even a sprinkling of Finnish supernatural powers just for good measure, I couldn’t really pin down anything too concrete, aside from the underlying current that they were somehow pagan in some fashion or another. While one can certainly compare Vana to the Celtic goddess Brigid, or even Manwe to Lugh, the match is far from perfect. Yet I think that the actions of these characters, and the realms that they govern, speak to a broader link to the Germanic and Celtic traditions that Tolkien loved and was well aware of both as a philologist and as a storyteller, and I think this starts to tease out one of the main reasons why his stories are so powerful. They hint at something more ancient in a very subtle way, without beating you over the head with the details. The echo is there, so to speak, if one is listening. For me, when I reread this chapter it seemed as though there was an engrained familiarity to the material, even though it is only the second time I have ever read it in my life. When I think about why I felt this way I can only come back to the idea that patterns of Germanic, Classical, and Celtic myth that I have read before are woven throughout by Tolkien in such a way that I feel comfortable with the story, even though he mixes them in a way that makes it difficult, if impossible, to fully identify.

As for my favorite Valar, I have to go with Ulmo. First, I love the descriptions of him and the quote about the arising of the King of the Sea and his voice being as deep as the ocean. Having just read the story of Tuor in Unfinished Tales, I also love how he acts as an outsider compared to the other Valar. From the story of Tuor, Ulmo is clearly no company man, he does not tow the party line very well as far as the Doom of Mandos is concerned since it is said that he felt a kinship to elves and men that drives him to act as a “…light where darkness was decreed”(Unfinished Tales, 32). I am planning on paying greater attention this time around to the ways in which he intervenes to offer his assistance to the greater goal of defeating Morgoth. My hunch is that he is more actively involved in trying to make life as difficult as possible for Morgoth much more so than many of the other Valar.

This then brings up the issue of free will, and it is a complicated one at that! Running with the Ulmo-Tuor example, while he tells Tuor that he is the secret voice that helps those in need from time to time, in the same breath he states that this is so because he was appointed to do so before the making of the world (Unfinished Tales, 32). So, while he clearly acts against the interests of the other Valar, this statement makes me doubt his ability to act as a true free agent in Middle Earth as apparently his role was known to him before the Firstborn ever came into being. I am just going by this quote right now and it will be interesting to revisit this question after we read more material and see how the Valar act in the various situations that they are faced with.

In any case, I am looking forward to working through the reading and discussing these questions with everyone!

[independence1776]

For me, when I reread this chapter it seemed as though there was an engrained familiarity to the material, even though it is only the second time I have ever read it in my life. When I think about why I felt this way I can only come back to the idea that patterns of Germanic, Classical, and Celtic myth that I have read before are woven throughout by Tolkien in such a way that I feel comfortable with the story, even though he mixes them in a way that makes it difficult, if impossible, to fully identify.

That's very interesting! I had pretty much the same reaction-- that there's an ingrained familiarity-- even though I knew pretty much nothing about mythology. (I had a run-in with a horrible children's book on Greek myths and it turned me off the whole concept until recently.) But it's also hard to escape the pervasiveness in our culture, so that may have something to do with it.

Ulmo's another of my favorite's for that reason-- he cares even when the rest of the Valar take a metaphorical step back.

(Also, for sources: page numbers are pretty useless due the different editions floating about, which is why we'd prefer book and the further divisions. So the ones you quoted would be "Unfinished Tales, Part 1, 'Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin,' 32.")

I'm looking forward to reading and discussion your further reactions!

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

Ulmo is clearly no company man, he does not tow the party line very well as far as the Doom of Mandos is concerned since it is said that he felt a kinship to elves and men that drives him to act as a “…light where darkness was decreed”(Unfinished Tales, 32).

I like this observation a lot. He is also one of my favorites. My other is Aule, who has that same profile in a sense. He seems more independent in many ways and more compassionate relating the concerns and motivations of the First Born than many of the Valar. That will come up more clearly in later chapters also.

Dawn mentioned you were following the Mythgard lectures on Unfinished Tales. I really liked the stuff on Ulmo in the first one.

[solideogloria4ever (from livejournal.com)]

These are so well written! Many thanks to the awesome community here at SWG for doing this. I'm looking forward to joining in the discussion this weekend :)

[independence1776]

Thank you! We're looking forward to your input.