(no subject)

[elvses.livejournal.com]

I'm sure this happens to other people all the time, and not just me. You know when you read something in a book (say, in March of 2002), and can then never find it again?

I am searching through the HoME volumes in a thus-far unsuccessful attempt to locate I particular footnote I remember reading once. It concerned Indis, previously recorded as Ingwë's sister, being moved down one generation and relabelled as the daughter of his sister. The specific quote I am looking for described the reason for doing this: being that Tolkien decided all the women of Ingwë and Finwë's generation would likely already be married, and so Finwë's second wife would have to be younger, as the daughter of Ingwë's sister rather than simply Ingwë's sister.

Indis-sister-of-Ingwë is the version that appears in the Statute of Finwë and Miriel in MR, but Indis-niece-of-Ingwë shows up in The Shibboleth of Fëanor (PM-e). I could not find the note I was looking for in either place.

Anyone have any ideas where such a note may be hiding?

Comments

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

Is it this footnote?

53. When Aragorn, descended in long line from Elros, wedded Arwen in the third union of Men and Elves, the lines of all the Three Kings of the High Elves (Eldar), Ingwe, Finwe, and Olwe and Elwe were united and alone preserved in Middle-earth. Since Luthien was the noblest, and the most fair and beautiful, of all the Children of Eru remembered in ancient story, the descendants of that union were called 'the children of Luthien'. The world has grown old in long years since then, but it may be that their line has not yet ended. (Luthien was through her mother, Melian, descended also from the Mayar, the people of the Valar, whose being began before the world was made. Melian alone of all those spirits assumed a bodily form, not only as a raiment but as a permanent habitation in form and powers like to the bodies of the Elves. This she did for love of Elwe; and it was permitted, no doubt because this union had already been foreseen in the beginning of things, and was woven into the Amarth of the world, when Eru first conceived the being of his children, Elves and Men, as is told (after the manner and according to the understanding of his children) in that myth that is named The Music of the Ainur.) [As is said in the text at this point Arwen was descended from Finwe both in the line of Fingolfin (through Elrond) and in the line of Finarfin (through Celebrian); but she was also descended from Elwe (Thingol) through Elrond's mother Elwing, and through Galadriel's mother Earwen from Olwe of Alqualonde.
She was not directly descended from Ingwe, but her fore-mother Indis was (in earlier texts) the sister of Ingwe (X.261-2, etc.), or (in the present work, p. 343) the daughter of his sister. It is hard to know what my father had in mind when he wrote the opening of this note.]]

HOME 12, The Shibboleth of Feanor

That's the only footnote I'd could find so quickly

[elvses.livejournal.com]

Not quite the one I'm seeking, but thank you for taking the time to look it up. I'm starting to think that the specific note I have in mind (if I didn't imagine it in the first place) is likely in a different HoME volume and not my Big Three of well-used reference material (10, 11 and 12). It's driving me mad. I may have to resort to looking up every single sodding index mention of Indis in all books until I find it.

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

I am lazy as sin and tried to look it up the HoME volumes that I have in a computer searchable format (also the three you refer to) and all I found was the reference Rhaposdy cited above and other references that simply showed where he had changed the language in the text from a previous version. Like this: "Finwë took as second spouse Indis of the Vanyar, of the kin [> sister] of Ingwë."

One of the places I have found missing remarks that I thought I remembered from footnotes was in that book of letters of Tolkien. Could you have seen it there? Also, could it have been in that linguistic journal? Vinyar Tengwar. I only have one or two articles from that...so don't know what else might have been referenced in those articles.

[rhapsody11.livejournal.com]

Indis is covered in four books: Books of the Lost Tales part 1 (I started there), but she's not mentioned in the context you're looking for and HOME 10,11 and 12. Since you mentioned POME and MR, I looked in WoJ next, again nothing more than a mentioning of being a mom to Finarfin and Fingolfin. Alsos some intriguing stuff about falling off a clip and being Feanor's mom or being Finwë's first wife... This was the most relevant one I could find. I am thinking though... maybe it is mentioned, but not in the context of Indis.

[(Anonymous)]

just wondering if you might (long ago)have read Michael Martinez' essay that addresses (in part) this subject, and perhaps (in the years in between) come to identify it with Tolkien:

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=indis+ingwe+finwe&ei=UTF-8&fr=slv8-msgr&u=www.xenite.org/tolkien/final-eldarin-genealogy.html&w=indis+ingwe+finwe&d=Pur60PmdOr4H&icp=1&.intl=us

I'll be interested in knowing, otherwise, if you do find it. Best of luck!

[elvses.livejournal.com]

You know, I think that's it. And it's very possible that I read this years ago and, in the time between, became confused in the jumble of many sources and misremembered the passage as a note on the text by Christopher Tolkien. Thank you for finding this. It's cleared up one mystery.