(no subject)

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

Hi folks, I'm not sure if this is exactly the right place to query the Silm itself, but I thought if anyone's likely to know the answer, they'll probably be here.

I was re-reading 'The Shaping of Middle-earth' this morning and I was reminded of something that I had noticed before and wondered about. In the 'History of Middle Earth' series - the whole of it, as far as I can tell - Curufin is Feanor's fourth son and Caranthir his fifth, but in the Silm they reverse birth order. However, this is only in the family tree given (which has errors) and in one listing of the Sons of Feanor (on the other three occasions the order is Celegorm, Curufin, Caranthir).

Does anyone know why, or what the sigificance of this is (if any!)?

ETA: I made jedda think about it yesterday evening, and she was kind (or evil) enough to point out that it's almost certainly an(other) editing mistake by Christopher Tolkien. Occam's razor, I guess, which is better than another 'Gil-galad's father' issue.

Now that would be an interesting challenge. I might even have to post it - Write a fic in which all Tolkien's changing opinions on G-g's parentage are correct!

Comments

[nelyo.livejournal.com]

*frowns upon the Anonymous post*

Next time I'll log in to post and all :P

(Yeah, that was me, and the italics are all messed and... *weeps quietly in her corner*)

[dawn_felagund]

Ooooh, let us speculate? ;D Celegorm and Caranthir, hmmm... two hotheads together? They would strangle each other as soon as Curufin or MAedhros left the room ;)

Hmm...true.

It is interesting, your idea about how their "talents" complimenting each other. I once worked on a story called "Election Farce of Nargothrond." Were those two ever fun to write precisely for that reason! :D

Btw, did I mention I love Caranthir too? ;D

Are there any Feanorians that you do not love? ;)

The answer to that, for me, is no :)

[tarion-anarore.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, let us speculate? ;D Celegorm and Caranthir, hmmm... two hotheads together?

Good point. (The tiny hobbit in the far part of my brain which controls typing just wrote "good pint". Not even kidding :P)

Btw, did I mention I love Caranthir too? ;D

Doesn't everyone?

Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[nelyo.livejournal.com]

Does Angrod like him? :?

As for typos... My best one was to write (and to post it :|), while discussing about Rivendell:

"... by the whores of the Bruinen" (instead "shores")

Re: Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

Does Angrod like him? :?

LOL!

Re: Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[tarion-anarore.livejournal.com]

"... by the whores of the Bruinen"

LOL!!

Does Angrod like him?

Does Caranthir like Angrod. Does it even pose a threat? ;P

Re: Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

It just reminded me of the Angrod's council scene in the Silm. You know the one:

But Caranthir, who loved not the sons of Finarfin, and was the harshest of the brothers and the most quick to anger, cried aloud: 'Yea more! Let not the sons of Finarfin run hither and thither with their tales to this Dark Elf in his caves! Who made them our spokesmen to deal with him? And though they be come indeed to Beleriand, let them not so swiftly forget that their father is a lord of the Noldor, though their mother be of other kin.'

Then Angrod was wrathful and went forth from the council.

That, for me, is the definative Caranthir moment!

Re: Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[tarion-anarore.livejournal.com]

Right, of course. I only meant that Angrod & Caranthir both disliking each other doesn't really have to do with me liking them. Does that make sense?? Probably not, because I'm not even sure myself what I'm trying to say...:P

Anyways! Shall we say we're agreeing to agree? Because I think we're agreeing...

Re: Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree that we're agreeing. It does make sense!


My supervisor and one of the other lecturers here at Exeter have a habit of agreeing with each other at full volume across the senior common room and then not realising they actually have agreed. I hope I don't start doing the same.

Re: Typos (warning: obscene word :P)

[tarion-anarore.livejournal.com]

Yay!!

That is absolutely hilarious!

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much what I thought about Celegorm and Curufin's friendship, although I think that Celegorm had a fair share of brains and Curufin wasn't exactly weak, just not up to fighting Beren!

I've added an extra bit to my post with my (or rather jedda's) new theory.