Writing the Elves
Mar. 6th, 2007 08:22 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
remix17.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
silwritersguildI'm still pretty new to Tolkien, even though I've learned a lot about the mythos, but I am having trouble with a project I want to write--specifically, having trouble with some of the Elven details.
My story will take place on a timeline of about 20 years, and two of the main characters will be Elves. Can I create a special village or place for their Elven community, or did the Elves only dwell in listed ME places like Mirkwood and such, especially since they were fewer in number in Middle-Earth and many went to Valinor? Since the story will be set against the backdrop of the second big war against Morgoth, is there a specific way I must potray this community's involvement in that? My idea is for the community to be beseiged by the enemy's forces at present.
Any help would be appreciated.
My story will take place on a timeline of about 20 years, and two of the main characters will be Elves. Can I create a special village or place for their Elven community, or did the Elves only dwell in listed ME places like Mirkwood and such, especially since they were fewer in number in Middle-Earth and many went to Valinor? Since the story will be set against the backdrop of the second big war against Morgoth, is there a specific way I must potray this community's involvement in that? My idea is for the community to be beseiged by the enemy's forces at present.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 04:35 pm (UTC)This is post Dagor Bragollach and pre-Nirnaeth. Not really suitable for the story because everything changed so drastically after the Nirnaeth.
This is where they fled to after the Nirnaeth:
Yet fate saved the sons of Fëanor, and though all were wounded none were slain, for they drew together, and gathering a remnant of the Noldor and the Naugrim about them they hewed a way out of the battle and escaped far away towards Mount Dolmed in the east.
This is Dwarf territory and not that of the Green Elves.
During the War of Wrath, not many Noldo that followed the Feanorians fought in that battle, if not at all. They would follow the command of Maedhros and Maglor at the very least, who did not want to participate. The Noldor that did fought came from Valinor. Allegiance sworn to the one does not mean that stacks to the other. The main host came from Valinor and Finarfin tried to gather as much as he could from those who survived the kinslaying at Sirion (and not Amrod & Amras followers...) Tolkien does not mention Laiquendi elves fighting during the war of Wrath and joining the host of Finarfin. the only troups that were on Beleriand and that joined the battle were the Falathrim and the Edain, lead by Earendil.
From the Silmarillion:
Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman. But at the last the might of Valinor came up out of the West, and the challenge of the trumpets of Eönwë filled the sky; and Beleriand was ablaze with the glory of their arms, for the host of the Valar were arrayed in forms young and fair and terrible, and the mountains rang beneath their feet.
So the Green elves variation seems rather implausible.
I have been working on my battles of Beleriand essays when I could... so yeah.
Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 04:50 pm (UTC)Excellent points about the War of Wrath, and far more detailed than my sketchy outline of stuff.
In terms of a community of elves that isn't described in detail, that is fairly isolated (which leaves room for more invention), and that has fought against Morgoth (at various times in the First Age), the Green-elves are plausible. Not in the War of Wrath, but at other times.
Tolkien does not mention Laiquendi elves fighting during the war of Wrath and joining the host of Finarfin.
Again, thanks for the detail and canon-accuracy in correcting my erroneous statements. Your excellent research proves that I must re-read the Silm. :)
Taking out the War of Wrath factor, if Remix doesn't need to focus on the War for her story and wants to write an elven community besieged by the enemy, the Green-elves would work. Anyway, it's all up to her.
Essays, hm? *interested*
Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 04:56 pm (UTC)Well, they were very scattered and the area was big. There was a community at Sirion, but they kinda got slaughtered, so they fled to the isle of Balar where the last remaining high king, Gil-Galad dwelled with Cirdan and it seems plausible Celeborn as well. The question remains however, Oropher, Sindar of nature took the Green-Elves into Middle-Earth and two realms, Silvan were established there: Mirkwood and Lothlorien. The question is when this happened. The answer lies with him :)
Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 05:12 pm (UTC)The question remains however, Oropher, Sindar of nature took the Green-Elves into Middle-Earth and two realms, Silvan were established there: Mirkwood and Lothlorien. The question is when this happened. The answer lies with him :)
Let's see, Oropher's in UT: "Oropher had come among [the Silvan elves of Lorien] with only a handful of Sindar, and they were soon merged with the Silvan Elves, adopting their language and taking names of Silvan form and style." He came from Doriath (with Thranduil) after its destruction, and he must've picked up the Green-elves along the way? (I'm just trying to figure this out in my head!)
Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 05:20 pm (UTC)See my other comment, after the First Battle, a small part returned to Ossiriand and took no leader and no longer fought, the large part sought refuge in Doriath, thusly Oropher could have lead the Silvan host, even after the Kinslaying to Sirion, to Balar... or he sneaked out in between and crossed the mountains with them after Doriath fell. What does the UT say more?
Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 05:38 pm (UTC)Not too much, but there's an extra detail about the Green-elves according to this quote:
In Doriath [Galadriel] met Celeborn, grandson of Elmo the brother of Thingol. For love of Celeborn, who would not leave Middle-earth (and probably with some pride of her own, for she had been one of those eager to adventure there), she did not go West at the Downfall of Melkor, but crossed Ered Lindon with Celeborn and came into Eriador. When they entered that region there were many Noldor in their following, together with Grey-elves and Green-elves; and for a while they dwelt in the country about Lake Nenuial (Evendim, north of the Shire). Celeborn and Galadriel came to be regarded as Lord and Lady of the Eldar in Eriador, including the wandering companies of Nandorin origin who had never passed west of Ered Lindon and come down into Ossiriand.
Which doesn't deal with Oropher in the slightest, but it's a fascinating history all the same, and some of the Green-elves may have followed G & C and not all followed Oropher. Even more scattering! Poor Green-elves: all they wanted was to live in peace in Ossiriand. :(
Mostly I'm pointing this out because I'm knee-deep in UT looking up Green-elven details, and I thought you might find it interesting. :)
Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 05:48 pm (UTC)Yes I know... LOL it's scary that I actually know that ;) I need a new icon..
more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 05:07 pm (UTC)Taking out the War of Wrath factor, if Remix doesn't need to focus on the War for her story and wants to write an elven community besieged by the enemy, the Green-elves would work. Anyway, it's all up to her.
Given her wish regarding that, it would have to happen around the time of the First Battle, look below what happened to the Green Elves:
Therefore he called upon Denethor; and the Elves came in force from Region beyond Aros and from Ossiriand, and fought the first battle in the Wars of Beleriand. And the eastern host of the Orcs was taken between the armies of the Eldar, north of the Andram and midway between Aros and Gelion, and there they were utterly defeated, and those that fled north from the great slaughter were waylaid by the axes of the Naugrim that issued from Mount Dolmed: few indeed returned to Angband.
But the victory of the Elves was dear-bought For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called the Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the colour of leaves. But many went north and entered the guarded realm of Thingol, and were merged with his people.
So no, sorry. The green elves were split up or so it seems: they became part of Doriath and those who did return.. there were a few of them left and they never fought anymore.
Oh this is a lovely detail
In Ossiriand dwelt the Green-elves, in the protection of their rivers; for after Sirion Ulmo loved Gelion above all the waters of the western world. The woodcraft of the Elves of Ossiriand was such that a stranger might pass through their land from end to end and see none of them. They were clad in green in spring and summer, and the sound of their singing could be heard even across the waters of Gelion; wherefore the Noldor named that country Lindon, the land of music, and the mountains beyond they named Ered Lindon, for they first saw them from Ossiriand.
Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 05:18 pm (UTC)The First Battle is a possibility, though. Oh, I'm so interested in the Green-elves now!
I adore that quote: it is so lovely. :)
Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 05:21 pm (UTC)*waves at Remix*
We're here to help, honestly!
Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 05:30 pm (UTC)You know who does a great take on the history of the Green-elves? Marnie. Two of her stories (A Leaf on a Stream (http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=1825) and Dancing in the Darkness (http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=4556)) deal with Celeborn teaching the twins about the history of the Green-elves. I highly recommend those two-- Well, in fact, anything that Marnie's written.
*grins and waves* We're not trying to be confusing... Honestly...
Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 06:12 pm (UTC)Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 06:08 pm (UTC)Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 06:17 pm (UTC)Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 06:32 pm (UTC)Re: more on the Green elves
Date: 2007-03-06 06:36 pm (UTC)Re: First Age elves, Part One
Date: 2007-03-06 04:51 pm (UTC)Yet not all the Eldalië were willing to forsake the Hither Lands where they had long suffered and long dwelt; and some lingered many an age in Middle-earth. Among those were Círdan the Shipwright, and Celeborn of Doriath, with Galadriel his wife, who alone remained of those who led the Noldor to exile in Beleriand. In Middle-earth dwelt also Gil-galad the High King, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, who chose, as was granted to him, to be numbered among the Eldar; but Elros his brother chose to abide with Men.
Beginning Second age (from the Silm, Of the Rings of Power and the third age)
In the Great Battle and the tumults of the fall of Thangorodrim there were mighty convulsions in the earth, and Beleriand was broken and laid waste; and northward and westward many lands sank beneath the waters of the Great Sea. In the east, in Ossiriand, the walls of Ered Luin were broken, and a great gap was made in them towards the south, and a gulf of the sea flowed in. Into that gulf the River Lhûn fell by a new course, and it was called therefore the Gulf of Lhûn. That country had of old been named Lindon by the Noldor, and this name it bore thereafter; and many of the Eldar still dwelt there, lingering, unwilling yet to forsake Beleriand where they had fought and laboured long. Gil-galad son of Fingon was their king, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, son of Eärendil the Mariner and brother of Elros first king of Númenor.
Upon the shores of the Gulf of Lhûn the Elves built their havens, and named them Mithlond; and there they held many ships, for the harbourage was good. From the Grey Havens the Eldar ever and anon set sail, fleeing from the darkness of the days of Earth; for by the mercy of the Valar the Firstborn could still follow the Straight Road and return, if they would, to their kindred in Eressëa and Valinor beyond the encircling seas.
Others of the Eldar there were who crossed the mountains of Ered Luin in that age and passed into the inner lands. Many of these were Teleri, survivors of Doriath and Ossiriand; and they established realms among the Silvan Elves in woods and mountains far from the sea, for which nonetheless they ever yearned in their hearts. Only in Eregion, which Men called Hollin, did Elves of Noldorin race establish a lasting realm beyond the Ered Luin.
The Green-Elves followed Oropher (who did not fight during the War of Wrath, I think more about him is in the Unfinished Tales, the source for everything Silvan or Green Elves).